My wife and I attended a WQA/PQWA stragegy session on dealing with the new Ca. legislation. AB 1366 on Wednesday. We have been exchange tank dealers for over 30 years and members of both assossiations for over 20 years. We are both still in utter shock regarding the language that WQA handed out regarding exchange tanks in its Salinity Management Handbook. We just find this unbelievable. " While PE softener service can be an option in some areas, PE softener service has been discontinued or is simply not available in most areas of the country. In areas where it is available, PE softener service does not solve the softener salinity issue: it just moves it to a centralized location where it will inevitably need to be addressed by the regeneration plant operator." What a great tool to use
against portable exchange. Even better a representative from a regulatory
agency that oversees our area was present. That sure helps us, but it
probably doesn't matter as I guess we are out of business and don't even know it. Sorry to vent, but maybe there are some exchange tank dealers out there that might like to know what your association really thinks about you. Jon
Feeling you!! As a local celeb in LA would say. There is someone I can recommend that you speak with regarding the problems you will be facing.
Charles (Chubb) Michaud did a article on zero waste regeneration for PE exchange systems like yours. He is a real expert in this technology (so many others also !!) and can address your upcoming issues. If you can't reach him, get back hold of me and I will give you his number. He has helped me out of several projects and I know will be worth your time to talk with.
Maybe 15 years ago, I read about the recycling of the spent salt from the regeneration of softeners to prevent the discharge of chlorides to the POTW (Public Owned Treatment Works).
I recall that the spent regenerant was treated with either NaOH or NaCO3 to precipitate the Calcium and reuse the salt (NaCl) after removing the precipitate and clarifying the brine.
Furthermore, in other IX processes (DI), I have saved the water from one regeneration to be used for the next regeneration to minimize wastewater volumes and to lower the chemical costs of regenerations.
Obviously, this is much more appropriate for "bulk" regenerations rather than "in-tank" regeneration. (What I mean by bulk regeneration is that the resin in removed from the tanks and regenerated in a large volume and returned back to the tanks after regeneration. This process is commonly used for portable exchange service mixed-bed Deionizers. )
I can envision that regenerating PE softeners could possibly be done WITHOUT a discharge to sewer.
This would be a POSSIBLE resolution to this dilemma.
I am sure someone is already doing this somewhere.
Since PE softener exchange services are very geographically specific, cooperating with other non-competing portable exchange companies to develop and perfect this technology makes sense to me.
Good Luck
Taoward Lee Ecosystems, Inc. Costa Mesa, California Phone: 949 646-9494 Fax: 949 646-5557
Stay in the PE Softener Exchange Tank business. I was disappointed in that language also. I was also disappointed by the large number of PE Exchange Tank plants that discontinued that service. Anyone still doing PE should stay with it because area's outside of California are already getting pressure on automatic softeners. The PE service is a good solution to the individual automatic renegeration softeners. Maybe these governments will come to their sense's but in the meantime PE is stlll needed.
Please forgive my ignorence of the mechanics of portable exchange as we have never engaged in that type of business.
I'm trying to visualize what I think this process may be. I am guessing here but it seems that a company has customers with a media tanks filled with resin, or perhaps some other type of media. On some basis, ( I have no idea what it may be) these tanks are exchanged with another tank filled with recharged resin or other 'fresh' media. The exhausted media is returned to the central location and either recharged or discarded depending on what it may be. All of the above is specultation on my part.
Just thinking about the process, (if I have accurately described it above), is difficult for me to understand.
The benefits of centralized cleaning and total control over every aspect of the by products is certainly appealing. As other posters have noted, one could even re-use much of the regenerants.
My confusion lies in a few areas. With softeners how does one know when a tank is exhausted? What does one do when consumption is typically, say, a 500 gallons a day and the hardness is 30 GPG?
I wondering about the mechanics of this arrangement too. Does an employee visit each customer, remove the tank from the C.V. and then replace it with another tank and then re-thread the C.V.? - That seems like a pretty good amount of work and a lot of heavy lifting if assumptions are correct here. Again, I have no idea.
Then, of course, I wonder about the pricing structure. How much does it cost a company to exchange an exhausted tank with a charged one? How much does it cost the customer for this service?
Please forgive the length of this post but I don't seem to understand, or even have a basic grasp, of how the economics and benefits work for everyone involved in the process.
I am sorry if I have asked a lot of very dumb questions but if any one has some patience to explain it to me I would appreciate it very much.
One of your questions are asking for info (cost) that should not be discussed here. Better to contact Jon privately.
I will try to answer what I can:
"On some basis, ( I have no idea what it may be) these tanks are
exchanged with another tank filled with recharged resin or other
'fresh' media. The exhausted media is returned to the central location
and either recharged or discarded depending on what it may be."
That is correct.
"With softeners how does one know when a tank is exhausted? What does
one do when consumption is typically, say, a 500 gallons a day and the
hardness is 30 GPG?"
When the unit is initially provided an estimate of capacity is made based on estimated daily water usage and the water analysis. The estimated frequency of exchange is made. It may be once every 7, 14 28 or 56 days. The exchange is then set into the particular delivery route schedule of the Dealer. When the tank is exchanged and brought in to the regeneration facility the exhaustion state of the media is checked and recorded. If the tank is totally exhausted after a predetermined number of exchanges the Customer is contacted and offered more frequent exchanges. In some cases the Customer is provided with a hardness test kit for softeners or a water quality indicator for Demineralizers to know when the tanks are exhausted.
"a lot of heavy lifting".
Yes. Most of the exchange tanks are 8 or 9" diameter 1 Cu. Ft. vessels and with water in them will weigh over 100 lbs. Some exchange tanks will be 12 or 14" diameter 2 or 3 Cu. Ft. vessels and with water will weigh 2 - 3 times that. The tanks are typically moved with PE Tank Carts but must be hand off loaded from the delivery truck.
"how the economics and benefits work for everyone involved in the process."
Benefits to the Customer:
1 - No regenerant chemicals (salt-acid-caustic) are needed on site. 2 - Units are typically rented on a per month basis. No capital expense. 3 - In some instances the Customer can buy the tanks and media and only pay for the regeneration/exchange. 4 - No government pressure on regenerant waste from the site. 5 - In the case of other than water softening such as Demineralization - No hazardous chemicals (acid/caustic) on site.
Benefits to the Dealer:
1 - Monthly recurring income. 2 - Profitable if cost calculations vs price to Customer are correct.
Again, regarding your cost questions - You would need to discuss that privately with a Dealer like Jon or some other PE Dealer.
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